This interview is with Tim Hanson, Chief Marketing Officer at Penfriend.

Tim Hanson, Chief Creative Officer, Penfriend

Welcome, Tim! Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey to becoming an expert in SEO, digital marketing, and content strategy?

My path to digital marketing actually started in a pretty unexpected place – I was a structural engineering draftsman, spending my days creating 3D models of buildings. I saw this opportunity to turn these models into better visuals for clients, but the construction industry, being run by dinosaurs (their words, not mine), wasn't exactly open to innovation.

That frustration with traditional ways of doing things pushed me to explore digital marketing. I actually read The Four-Hour Work Week back in uni, and while it lit a spark, it took about 7 years before I really did anything with it. The real turning point came when I lost my job and all my freelance clients at once. I ended up doing 28 interviews in 2 weeks and landed a junior growth hacker role at an agency (whatever the hell that meant at the time).

Over three years, I worked my way up to head of SEO, learning everything I could about what actually drives results versus what people just say works. Now, I help businesses achieve serious growth through strategic content marketing and SEO. We're talking over £38M in revenue for clients in the last 4 years. What makes us different is we actually focus on what makes money, not just what drives traffic.

We currently rank above some huge websites for massive terms with zero backlinking, simply because we have better content. The biggest lesson I've learned? Understanding the process deeply is everything. Whether it's SEO, content creation, or AI implementation – if you don't understand how something works at a fundamental level, you're just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.

Your career trajectory is impressive, going from content creation to leading growth for companies like TopApps.ai. What were some pivotal moments that shaped your path and expertise?

The first was actually a failure—I was working in construction, creating these amazing 3D visualizations, but kept hitting this wall of "that's not how we do things here." I kept hearing this. And it turns out it’s because it’s the way it’s always been done. The problem with this is it leaves no room for anything new. It’s like kicking innovation in the face.

That frustration there showed me just how many processes were stuck, because people weren’t able to adopt something new and better. For me, I try my best to make this my default approach to anything.

The second pivotal moment came when I got absolutely blindsided—the agency I was working for lost a bunch of clients, and suddenly I was out of a job. But here's where it gets interesting: two of those clients reached out directly, asking if I could help them as a consultant. The forced transition from employee to consultant completely changed how I thought about value creation and client relationships. It pulled me away from “SEO first” everything, to what string of SEO can I use to solve this AND still keep the relationship a priority.

The biggest, though, I had was this client who'd spent $100k on content, used three different agencies, and managed to push their search traffic to 200k/month in just three months. Sounds great, right? Well, it all crashed because we were chasing the wrong metrics. That failure led to what I call the "revenue-first" approach—focusing on bottom-funnel content that actually makes money before worrying about top-funnel keywords.

You mentioned using AI to scale content creation from 5 to 50 articles per month while maintaining quality. Can you elaborate on your 22-step process and how others can adapt it for their content strategy?

It came when we mapped out every single macro-decision a human makes when writing a blog. We realized you couldn't write a blog in 1 prompt, 3 prompts, or even 5 prompts. It needed 22+ prompts, each handling a specific part of the process.

Here's how we adapted each phase of the traditional process for AI: For Idea Generation, instead of just brainstorming, we have AI analyze our existing content performance data to identify gaps and opportunities. We feed it specific parameters about our target audience and let it generate topics that align with both search intent and business goals.

The key is being incredibly specific with the prompts - "give me blog ideas" won't cut it.

The Keyword Research phase was tricky to automate because, frankly, the AI needs human context. We developed a hybrid approach where AI helps analyze search intent patterns and competitor content, but humans make the final call on keyword prioritization.

For the Content Creation phase, each subheading, each paragraph, and each transition gets its own prompt. And there are a bunch of prompts to oversee how the whole blog flows from beginning to end.

For Optimization and Review, we developed specific prompts that act as quality control checkpoints. They analyze readability, SEO elements, and even emotional resonance. But here's the crucial part - we let other prompts do what they need to do to make a great blog; then rewrite it at the end in the user's style.

This approach has helped us consistently outrank major websites with zero backlinking, purely because our content quality is better. The most important lesson? Start with a process you know well. Could you explain it step by step to a five-year-old? That's when you'll get great results from AI. Everything else is just throwing spaghetti at the wall. Want to know the best part? This adapted process helped us scale from 5 to 50 articles monthly while maintaining quality. No more waiting weeks for approval from 20 people who'll never read the blog. Just consistent, high-quality content that actually ranks.

Many businesses struggle with balancing content quantity and quality, especially with AI tools readily available. What advice would you give to someone on a limited budget who wants to leverage AI for content without sacrificing quality?

Most people jump straight into using AI to create tons of top-of-funnel blog posts, but that's exactly backwards. If you're on a limited budget, start with the content that actually makes you money – your product comparisons, your solution pages, your "versus" and "alternative" content.

Here's what I learned the hard way: Start with ONE piece of content that you know inside and out. I'm talking about a topic where you could write every word yourself if you had to. Use that as your testing ground for AI.

Map out exactly how you'd write it – every decision point, every consideration – then use AI to help with specific parts of that process. It's like learning to drive; you don't start on the highway during rush hour.

Focus on getting ONE piece of content absolutely right before scaling up. I've seen businesses waste thousands on pumping out content that doesn't convert because they scaled too quickly. Better to have five pieces of content that actually drive revenue than fifty that just drive traffic.

You've spoken about the importance of using benefit-driven keywords, even in footer links. How can someone effectively identify these keywords for their website and content, and what are some common mistakes to avoid?

Everyone gets caught up in search volume and difficulty metrics, but here's what actually matters: understanding where in the buying journey each keyword sits. I learned this the hard way after driving 200k monthly visits to a client's site with zero sales to show for it. Start by looking at your conversion data first. Go into your analytics and find the search terms that are already making you money. These are your gold mines – they tell you exactly what language people use when they're ready to buy. I don't care if these terms only get 10 searches a month – if they convert, they're valuable.

The biggest mistake I see is people treating all keywords the same. They'll stuff their footer with generic terms like "best [product] solutions" when they should be using specific benefit-driven terms like "[product] for [specific use case]" or "alternatives to [competitor] for [specific problem]." The key is to think about the actual problem your product or service solves, then work backwards to find how people search when they have that problem. Look at your competitors' thank-you pages or success stories. The language their satisfied customers use to describe their problems and solutions is golden for identifying benefit-driven keywords.

Discovering content gaps is crucial for any SEO strategy. Beyond using AI, what are some hands-on methods you recommend for identifying untapped content opportunities within a specific niche?

Everyone's obsessed with keyword research tools and competitor analysis, but the gold is actually in your sales team's conversations and customer support tickets. Start with your sales team's calls and emails. Have them keep a log of every question potential customers ask, especially the ones that make them go, "Huh, that's interesting." These questions are pure gold because they show you exactly what information people need before making a purchase decision.

We found that some of our highest-converting content came from questions that never showed up in keyword research tools. The second place most people miss is customer support tickets. Not just the technical issues, but the questions people ask when they're trying to decide between different options or features.

These are essentially telling you exactly what comparison or decision-making content you need to create. We've had massive success creating content around these decision points, even when the search volume looked low on paper.

You've achieved impressive open rates with your newsletter by focusing on case studies and failures rather than generic advice. What tips do you have for building an engaged email audience and crafting compelling content that resonates?

This is how I think about newsletters: Treat every newsletter like it's a product launch. Most people spend all their time crafting the perfect newsletter, then just fire it out into the void. Wrong approach. You need to build anticipation. Think about how Apple launches a new iPhone—they don't just dump it on their website one day. They tease it. They build hype. They create FOMO.

Your newsletter deserves the same treatment. Start dropping hints about what's coming in the next edition. Share snippets on social media. Get people talking about what might be in it. When you treat each newsletter like a mini-product launch, you're not just sending an email—you're creating an event. The beauty of this approach? You're practicing product-launch skills every single week. You learn what hooks work, what creates buzz, what gets people excited. And since it's weekly, you can iterate and improve fast.

Bad launch? No problem, you've got another shot next week. You are fundamentally shifting how you think about your newsletter. It's not an email—it's a product. And people get hyped for product drops.

Conversion optimization is key for any website. What are some simple yet effective strategies you've used to increase client conversion rates, and what advice would you give someone just starting with CRO?

I wasted three months of my life once trying to optimize a landing page that was getting maybe 50 visitors a week. Split-testing headlines, tweaking button colors, rearranging layouts – the whole CRO playbook. Want to know how much difference it made? Absolutely nothing. Because when you're dealing with such small numbers, you can't actually prove anything works. Here's what I learned the hard way: Don't even think about CRO until you're getting at least 200 users to a page per week. Anything less than that, and you're just guessing.

You need enough traffic to actually validate that your changes are making a difference. Otherwise, you're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic – you might look busy, but you’re achieving nothing. Focus on getting traffic to your money pages first. Use that time to collect real user feedback, watch how people actually use your site, and identify obvious friction points. By the time you hit that 200 users per week mark, you'll have a clear picture of what actually needs fixing, instead of just throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Looking ahead, what are you most excited about in the future of SEO, content marketing, and AI, and how do you see these fields evolving in the coming years?

Google's rolling out AI overviews, destroying the value of basic informational content overnight. Featured snippets are dying. Top-of-funnel keywords are becoming worthless. Every SEO playbook I've built over the last decade is turning to dust. But then I notice something fascinating in the data. The product-comparison pages? They're not just surviving - they're thriving. The customer-journey content? Getting more valuable by the day. The pages with personality, with real insights, with human experience? They're bulletproof.

We're witnessing the biggest shift in digital marketing since Google killed the keyword meta tag. ToFu is going to be pure AI territory. All those basic "what is" and "how to" queries? They're gone. The AI will handle those. But the closer you get to the point of purchase, the more humans crave... humans. Paradoxically, AI is forcing us to be more human, not less. The future isn't about competing with AI for basic information delivery. It's about using AI to scale the human elements that actually drive decisions. It's about building bridges between AI-driven discovery and human-driven trust. This is creating a new kind of content hierarchy. At the top, AI will handle basic information needs. But as you move down the funnel, you need progressively more human elements. Real experiences. Genuine insights. Authentic perspectives. The kind of stuff no AI can fake. We're finally going to have to be honest about what drives buying decisions. It's not the perfectly optimized meta description. It's not the keyword density. It's the human connection.

The winners won't have the biggest content budget or the most sophisticated AI. They'll be the ones who figure out how to use AI to amplify human expertise, not replace it. The ones who understand that AI is a tool for scaling human connection, not a substitute for it. Less top-of-funnel content, more authentic expertise. Less generic advice, more real experiences. And you know what? My client whose traffic plummeted... their traffic never hit 200k again - but their revenue doubled.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Here's the thing that most people get backward about SEO: it should never be your first priority. Make it your second rule, never your first. When SEO drives your decisions, you end up optimizing for robots instead of humans. That's how you get soulless content that ranks well but converts poorly.

Think about it—when SEO leads the charge, you start making weird decisions: keyword stuffing that makes sentences read like they were written by a drunk robot, creating content for search volumes instead of solving real problems, and writing meta descriptions that sound like spam instead of value propositions. Start with what your audience actually needs. Build something genuinely useful.

Then—and only then—make it SEO-friendly. This changes everything about how you approach content. Instead of asking, "What keywords can we rank for?" you ask, "What actually helps our audience?" Instead of "How can we optimize this?" you ask, "How can we make this more valuable?" When you flip the script like this, SEO becomes a natural enhancement to already great content—not the reason for its existence. The irony? Content created this way tends to rank better anyway because it actually serves a purpose beyond just trying to rank.